February 19–26, 1998

20 questions

Kate Bornstein

Interview by Neil Gladstone

Kate Bornstein first started noodling around with gender in the early '80s, when she was a he, living in Philadelphia and going by the name Al. Since having transsexual surgery in 1987, she's toured the country discussing her views on gender and has written about her life in the book Gender Outlaw. Her latest piece of prose, My Gender Workbook (Routledge), is a giddy, book-length, Cosmopolitan kind of questionnaire that asks what it means to be a man, woman or neither. Before focusing her life on gender studies, Bornstein, 49, practiced Scientology for 10 years and worked for IBM. She currently lives in New York City.

What interested you in Scientology?

The thing that was so magnetic about Scientology was this idea that your soul keeps on going and bodies are secondary. I don't believe that anymore. I'm kind of enjoying the body I've got. Finally, after 50 years.

How much did you spend on the operations you had?

It was $4,000 for the hospital stay and $4,000 for the doctor. I was covered by my [former] wife's Blue Cross. The cost is often rough for a lot of people who believe that surgical intervention is necessary to live their lives. I'm not sure it is anymore.

You're not sure if surgical intervention was necessary for yourself?

I'm really happy I did it. But I was certainly pressured into doing it by the system that existed at the time. There were no options back then, hon. There weren't any fun women running around with penises. There were no fun men running around with vaginas like there are today. Today, people are stretching more and more what it means to be a man and what it means to be a woman.

Do you ever miss your penis?

I still have it, honey. It's turned inside out and tucked up inside me. I don't have an outie, I have an innie. But it's still the same skin. What was the outside of my penis is now the walls of my vagina. I'm just now getting to the point of how to have a lot of fun with it.

How?

I've been focused so long on the subject of gender and "What am I?" and trying to be a woman and trying to be a good lesbian and trying to be a good dyke. None of it ever worked and finally I've just given up. That letting go has allowed me to focus on how I can enjoy what I've got. Look, I'm not a woman. But I'm not a man, either. When I started doing this thing in Philadelphia, I would walk through the streets and people would laugh at me. These days people still look at me and some are hostile and some gawk, but many are like "Oh my God, what's that?" or "Oh my God, what a cute thing." I don't scare people anymore. I don't intimidate people anymore and that is such a relief. I get to be friendly.

When you're having sex with someone do you have to explain how your genitals work?

Ooh, yea. Cause most people would assume: "It's an innie. It works like any other innie." It doesn't. I have a G-spot. Even though looking back over my surgical records, they didn't put one in. It's a little spongy spot up under the pelvic bone and you touch it and it's like fireworks. What's that doing in what is essentially a man's body? My clitoris operates much like a clitoris would operate. What's a man doing with that? Are our genitals really that different or are they the same Jell-O mix poured into two different molds? I have a new girlfriend who's a sex researcher. She teaches sex workshops for people who're in all types of transition. Her co-worker on this workshop teaches penile reflexology about certain pressure points along the shaft and scrotum that produce really fun things. Up inside me, penile reflexology works like a charm. [giggles nervously]

Do you think we should de-genderize language?

I think we should keep language on its toes. Whenever I wrote about someone whose gender I wasn't certain about in My Gender Workbook, someone who subscribes to being neither a man nor a woman, I used a non-gendered pronoun such as "hir" and "ze." People use these non-gendered pronouns in cyberspace to a large degree. Is that healthy for the language? Sure. I would like to see the acceptance of a non-gendered pronoun into the language. Fifty years from now it'll probably be boring.

What about de-genderizing fashion?

I would rather multi-genderize it. I have taken advantage of this fashion thing, hon. I've gone from being the very wholesome Martha Stewart transsexual to something more like the Spice Girls.

Which Spice Girl are you most like?

Tranny Spice. There's this whole new gender that's been developed that hasn't been called a gender yet. It started in the early '90s with the riot grrrls: It's girl power. That's what the Spice Girls are singing about… and making it pop, and that's fine. But it started in the streets with a lot of rage.

How would you describe the Grrrl gender?

Smart, playful, strong, unafraid and pretty and cute. [giggles]

Do you think that's different from a "woman"?

"Woman" has gotten to be this kind of gender that has put up picket fences around itself and no one is allowed in without proof-positive identification. Grrrl is wide open and "woman" and "man" are not. Who wants to be one of those? They're boring.

Kate Bornsteinwill be appearing on Thursday, Feb. 19, 7:30 p.m., at Giovanni's Room, 345 S. 12th St., 923-2960.