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Philly Mag cover: Whites must criticize blacks more
Philly Mag cover about "white people have become afraid to say anything at all about race. Here's what's not being said." No, it is not a parody.
Philly Mag cover: Whites must criticize blacks more
Follow on Twitter @DanielDenvir
Philadelphia Magazine just published an article by Robert Huber titled "Being white in Philly: In a city that is largely poor and segregated white people have become afraid to say anything at all about race. Here's what's not being said."
No, it is not an Onion-esque parody of Philadelphia's most white-bread journalistic institution, a magazine that seemingly hired Gene Marks just because he wrote the jaw-droppingly offensive article “If I Were a Poor Black Kid” for Forbes.
But before I continue, I must first disable the story's booby trap, a defense built into its very DNA: the idea that "in so many quarters, simply discussing race is seen as racist."
Huber is not a brave man, and his premise is totally false. People will only think you "simply discussing race" is racist if you, like Huber, treat black people like inscrutable extraterrestrials whose moral shortcomings might be responsible for their own poverty.
The reality is that many black people frequently talk about race and racism. And really, white people do too--sometimes intelligently, sometimes not so much. To the extent that whites do not discuss race more it is because they do not want to address important pieces of context like, say, history (see Louis CK).
Indeed, I'm a white guy who writes about race and frequently talk to black Philadelphians--and often, gasp, about race. Black sources have never protested frank questions about race for articles I write about poverty and educational inequity, police brutality and mass incarceration, or neighborhood segregation and (yes, largely black) gun violence.
Huber's idea that white people are uniquely aggrieved because they are muzzled in discussions of race (why are they allowed to say the n-word and not me) is not a new one. It's more that Huber wants to have a particular sort of conversation about race. Namely, he "yearn[s] for....the freedom to speak to my African-American neighbors about...how the inner city needs to get its act together." Like, you know, an arguably racist conversation about race.
Yes, that's certainly not the sort of conversation about race most blacks or sensible whites (not to mention unmentioned Asians or Latinos) want to have.
Huber seems to feel that his holding the door for black people at Wawa and being "overly polite," an example he weirdly invokes a few times, is some sort of pathetic expression of white guilt. It's not clear how Huber convinced his editor that personal hangups better discussed with a psychotherapist were "journalism" about "race in Philadelphia" and so he conducted interviews with some white people. In Fairmount.
One source is a "tall, slim, dark-haired beauty from Moscow getting out of her BMW" who tells him that "Blacks use skin color as an excuse" and waste your tax dollars while "not doing anything except sitting on porches smoking pot...Why do you support them when they won't work, just make babies and smoking pot?" If this is "what's not being said" about race by whites then white people like Huber might indeed need to keep theirs mouths shut.
Not only does this Russian fail to suggest where Philadelphians of any race are supposed to smoke pot (only half-kidding here, and surely Huber is aware that young whites are ten percent more likely to smoke pot than their black counterparts?), Russia is infamous for virulent racism against Afro-descendant people. (And then there's the matter of some male journalists feeling compelled to point out the physical attractiveness of female sources.) That being the case, this woman's quote appears more like a sock puppet for Huber's own mindset than a meaningful representation of anything about Philadelphia. Other characters include some kind of hipster who once lived next to a violent (black) drug dealer and prides himself "on [being at] the outer limits of engagement--even at the expense of his own well-being."
Then there's a white lady named Jen who bravely went to a pool in Brewerytown even though she and her daughter were the only white people there. Jen, who Huber clearly thinks deserves some sort of race relations medal, gushed that "these kids were so happy and sweet." Anyhow, what really shocked Huber was that one who lived across the street from the pool said she was "the luckiest girl in the world"--even though her house is a "beaten-down row."
Jen warns Huber that "there's a certain arrogance" in his "judgement...I might not know what people are truly experiencing." Jen, of course, was right.
But Huber, who feels "profoundly sad and a blind desire to escape" while driving through North Philly, doesn't take her free advice.
There's also an n-word dropping old white guy named John who complains about "when blacks from the South with chips on their shoulders...moved North." Huber does not endeavor to explain where John's white neighbors went (to the suburbs) or why black people moved to Philly as part of the great migration (Jim Crow terrorism, the collapse of the Southern agricultural economy, and booming war-time industrial production).
Which brings me to: Huber incorrectly dates "white flight" to the 1964 North Philly riots, rendering a city that was just 20-percent black in 1950 44-percent black today.
I know this article is not about "journalism" or, really, "facts," but if Huber had consulted a history book he might well have learned that most well-paying blue and white collar jobs were long denied to blacks here and elsewhere. And he would have understood that white people and good-paying jobs began leaving Philadelphia well before the riots thanks to the federal government subsidizing, through new roads and whites-only mortgages, their relocation to suburbs like Levittown. Levittown construction began in 1952, and blacks were explicitly denied entry.
Blacks finally got a foothold into American industry right as it began to move elsewhere. Black unemployment, concentrated in a segregated ghetto that expanded as whites took their federally-funded middle class welfare in the suburbs, skyrocketed.
The article, in fact, is not really about "white people" at all. It is, save for n-word dropping John, about rich and middle class white people. Philadelphia Magazine in 2011 declared Mummers "10 Things We Need To Get Rid Of" not so much, I think, because some mummers do or say racist shit. And I'm guessing Huber would probably be just as flummoxed by working class or poor whites on the other side of Front Street. These are whites that might say horrible things about blacks but who, unlike middle and upper class whites, felt they had to compete for evermore scarce resources in a declining city. Racial violence flared in Philadelphia's racial borderlands, from Kensington to Grays Ferry, through the 1990s. In 1985, whites in Southwest Philadelphia demonstrated against a black family moving in. The house was later burned.
In 2011, Mayor Michael Nutter grabbed national attention when he criticized black fathers for being mere "sperm donors" and chided young people for letting the "crack of your butt" show. He told black youth, "you've damaged your own race."
Such sermons, of course, appeal to a line of black self-help conservatism and nationalism that stretches from Booker T. Washington to Louis Farrakhan. But some white people have long met such intraracial put-downs and, especially those delivered by the far-more-palatable-to-whites-than-Farrakhan Bill Cosby, with undisguised glee.
As Inquirer columnist Annette John-Hall wrote: Nutter "said it. In a way that his white constituents would hear him loud and clear. At that point, he wasn't talking to black people anymore. Nutter expressed in no uncertain terms the sentiment that so often shackles black people - that the unlawful actions of a few smear everyone else. Something whites never have to fear. Just as they never have to live up to the expectation of being a credit to their race. Whatever that means."
Indeed, a post titled "You’ve Damaged Your Own Race’: Philly Mayor Blasts Teens, Flash Mobs" went viral on Glenn Beck's website.
Philadelphia Magazine has reporters who do fantastic city magazine journalism, and I've heard that people close to the publication are not happy about this particular trolling expedition. Philadelphia Magazine can sometimes not help but to brazenly stroke the fragile if well-resourced egos of its elite readership--and, and on its worst days, stoke their pathetic prejudices and insecurities too.
(Their article is not online yet. But if it were I'm not sure I would assist in driving traffic their way by linking.)
[Thanks to @laurencetom for the image above.]
Comments (84)
When will we ever get beyond these race baiting articles?— jerryk2b- Did you read the part where the actions of 1985 lead to a burned down house, did you read that part?
Neither did I. But I did read the part about Anne Frank.— Cuddles - Cuddles...I don't understand your comments. Can you please give further details? — jerryk2b
- How is this race baiting? The reporter is providing a counter argument to an article published in another magazine.
— meganrsmith - You ask why race baiting? There is no link to the article in the magazine and you can't get that article on line. Why the counter argument now when we can't refer to the article? All you or I have to do is just read the comments here to see why it's race baiting. — jerryk2b
- The article is online and easily found via a google search. — oneday
- The title of your article is misleading. How do you interpret "white people have become afraid to say anything about race" into "whites must criticize blacks more." I think that many whites feel Robert Huber's points are valid whether they are politically correct by this author's standards, or not. You can make and condition people (of any race) to overtly behave in certain ways. But that won't change how they feel and think. Until people (of all races) can talk about how they honestly feel without being vilified, there won't be any dialogue between races and there won't be any change.— Rtk280
- No latinos (Spanish speaking Indians) and Asians were not a part of this "dialogue", though some would argue, monologue that has existed here in America since at least 1776.
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As all (ALL) Europeans are "Nationalist", all (ALL) Americans are "Racist". Everyone has different perspectives/definitions on "race". There is much I wish to say that once I tried to put into a book, "The Adventures of Muhammad Smith and the Million Man March". A simple google will reveal my name.
Currently I am "secure in my race"...whatever that means. But I will say though, I could give a flying flip for being a "credit to my race".
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Since I was a child, trying so hard to have silky hair, the unspoken "thought" never spoken of in any and all conversations on race, that I ever heard...which of course I would have never heard a conversation strictly among Whites, the unspoken "thought" that was a clear 'elephant in the room' was that Blacks were a sub-human/intellect species.
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As I have written a book, there is an infinitey that now I could say....But in our 200 year old experiment that has lead us to The Industrial Revolution, I do want to leave you with one "thought": Genesis 2:17.
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When the trees go....we go
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"Flowers come from dirt"....(The adventures of) Muhammad Smith, 1995
— Cuddles - Someone needs to tell me what the f@#$ "federally-funded middle class welfare in the suburbs" means. Also, "Nutter expressed in no uncertain terms the sentiment that so often shackles black people - that the unlawful actions of a few smear everyone else." Really I think you need to do a little more research on crime in the city. Talk about white guilt or is the writer just an apologist for the black community? F@#$ing liberals are killing this country!!!— jimday
- The author alluded to it in the article, although you are right that it could have been clearer. When suburbs like Levittown were being built, the federal government began supporting home loans. One of the criteria used to determine the relative risk of a loan--and thus the interest rate and whether a loan would be given--was the racial makeup and the racial momentum of an area. In other words, if an area were either heavily minority or trending toward having more minorities, loans became either more difficult or impossible to get, and thus property values quickly declined in correlation with racial makeup. If you google "red lining" you'll find out more about it. The author's point is that government subsidized loan programs explicitly favored white areas--and incentivized places like Levittown to bar blacks--and so home loan assistance was provided to white suburbs and denied to minority-heavy urban areas. — DLRJ
- Great answer! — Ms.Fitt
- Its an article that any white person would have a tough time arguing against. We have been "taught" by the media to stay quite and not talk about how blacks destroy their own neighborhoods and contribute very little to both the neighborhood and their own families. That would be racist to admit to a truth. The culture of "no snitches" is brought about by blacks to go ahead and abuse each other. The welfare assistance that turns into a whole hand me down lifestyle. The "getting whats mine" attitude without earning a thing. Black leaders dont even address these issues. They point fingers. And as whites we have this guilt complex to help for things that none of us were alive for. This was an article that needed to be written for some time now.
You want to hear another truth? Whites always look at little black kids and think they're so cute and innocent cause they're not corrupted yet. And it stinks to think that way. We already know the statistics that say that little child has a fight ahead of them to overcome their own family and neighborhood. Its a truth and its about time we all talk about it. Fire away at me, but look in the mirror first and your neighborhoods first.— hipdaddy - 70-90% of what you say applies to any Urban culture/environment going back to the Mafia, Jack The Ripper and what the Rural Warrior Spartans said of the Urban Homosexual Athenians. Also you ignore the fact that before the post World War Two Northern migration the "stereotype" of the American "Black" (which at the time was considered a slur much as "Neg**" is now considered a slur) before the World War Two migration the stereotype for Blacks was the cowering sap of RURAL America ala "Stephin Fetchit".
But whether it's the "Rochester" in 1963's "Mad, Mad, Mad World" or the justified thug in the 1970s' of John "Shaft" (who "takes it to the man") no matter what the stereotype the implication is the same: Sub-Human Species.
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This is an unspoken theory that affects all of our politics:
Rural America loved (LOVED) socialist Roosevelt democrats until July 2, 1964.
When we deal with that fact America will return to the unity, progress and Leadership she displayed to the world from 1933 - 1933.— Cuddles - *1933-1963 — Cuddles
- "whites" must criticize "blacks" because they've been afraid to speak up.....????????? Maybe the dumbest premise I've perused to date. Everyone's BEHAVIOR should perhaps be up for constructive comment, but on the basis of behavior, not segmented by skin color. For instance - gun violence is examined and punishable by the behavior - the gun violence. There's nothing to gain - the press itself, for fear of losing jobs, readership, CREDIBILITY - doesn't "speak up' either. Conversely, the human condition is articulable from the beginning of time through story-telling. We all have pain and difficulties and dissonance and childhood journeys as part of our personal story. Just like everyone lives and dies. Inescapable. And if we listen to the stories and respond to their content we can get somewhere - moving on as an individual, a block, a neighborhood, as a city, etc etc etc - move from 'one set of problems to a better set of problems.". The white black thing is just preposterous and embarrassing that this seems to still be the stellar characteristic from which examination and discourse should arise. Let's start looking at things we all can identify with as part of our individual and collective truth(s) - we want to increase inner peace ( which directly radiates into our communities ), decrease suffering, increase confidence, decrease crime, increase daily from sunrise to sunset MINDFULNESS, so people Respond rather than React ( ie hit, strike, hurt, yell, argue, scream, shoot, rob, stab, push, provoke ) in negative hurtful damaging disruptive and illegal ways towards our fellow man and woman and especially our children and our neighbors and our animals etc etc etc. it's all connected. I'm not holding a flower in my hand spewing the "we are all ONE" nonsense. But who we are, and how we behave does affect people places and things around us. Leave this issue of Philadelphia Magazine stacked on the shelves and racks everywhere it's offered for sale.— zen
- Im surprised that you could write that much all while saying nothing. — hipdaddy
- I am more than happy to discuss "how the inner city needs to get its act together" when white people are willing to discuss the reality of "white privilege". There seems to be this unwillingness to except systemic racism as a reality. NOT an excuse - but a reality. And there continues to be an ongoing narrative about 'what black people are, and what black people stand for' that is steeped in negative stereotypes, while downright refusing to accept and acknowledge that African Americans continue to make impacts in the industries of technology, public health, mathematics, government, energy, media, and the list goes on. There is an outright refusal to acknowledge that the young man sitting on this porch smoking weed does NOT represent an entire culture of individuals. Why is that so hard for white people to accept? Daniel, this article is appreciated. And this battle continues.— BrownstonePR
- OK lets discuss. First off I can see you point of view. You feel as though youre more classified as that guy on the porch smoking weed and not the educated one that leads advances in your field. My contention isnt with guys like you. I see guys like you everyday and youre one and the same as us all. You are self-respecting and responsible.
As a white, I dont feel a privilege but I can see how in your eyes its there. I can tell you for certain that Ive earned everything that I have. Ive even been passed up in my career to elevate blacks to fill quotas. Having the experience and connections and yet being told to "wait it out" isnt much of a privilege in my eyes.
My questions to you, and answer truthfully, are what can be done to change the culture of inner city blacks to one that has a self respect for advancing themselves beyond the ghetto? One that wants to clean their neighborhoods and look out for each other? Are your community leaders really leaders? You see from my point of view, black criminals control and dictate the current generation. This attitude that America will not allow us to succeed so must fight the fight, when all I see are programs, funding, college assistance that give the youth the tools that they need.
Im interested in your response.— hipdaddy - So an example of your white privilege and prejudice is that you assume you have worked for everything you have, but the Blacks in your company only advanced through a quota. Did you ever think they possess skills that you do not? Also why is there so much focus on inner city Blacks and not their poor White counterparts in Kensington and South Philly — BLKMD
- BLKMD - Good question to ask. I fully acknowledge blacks in my field that are more skilled and educated then I. Have more passion and make more sacrifices. But Heres the answer to my example of reverse racism quotas: a 22 year old man with no experience or education in the field they advanced him in, was put through the managerial program and as I got to know him even he acknowledged the quota. He told me how uncomfortable he was advancing with those around him more qualified but he did whats best for him. As would I. Meanwhile my income and career was put on hold for 10 months to make it so. Hes an example of how whites are made to take a backseat towards black advancement when there isnt enough black applicants who are skilled for the position but a quota must be meet. Thats business i'm told. — hipdaddy
- But once again you (and even more concerning the Black applicant) dismiss the added skills that he has. Promoting diversity is not just about making the company feel good. There are economic gains that come from a workforce with different cultural and social backgrounds. A company is in the business of making money not of making people feel good. — BLKMD
- BLK - He had no skills for the job. He applied for upward mobility with no field experience. He went into an 18 week "assistant" program to learn the field that he was entering. Meanwhile as I stated, I was told on the side by the man in charge, with an eye roll, to "wait it out". Now does that sound like a white privilege to anyone? — hipdaddy
- Gee, hipdaddy, do you think we could have a discussion about how many highly experienced and educated WOMEN were told to train some wet-behind-the-ears, just-graduated-from-college and-related-to-the-boss white kid to be their better-paid supervisor? This is indeed white male privilege. — Susie from Philly
- Aside from the American Indian, the one ethnic group that since the onslaught of the Industrial Revolution, has had it worse (in every way almost) than the American Black...aside from that, the discrimination of women offers a fair perspective on all discrimination....When I was a child there were no women SEPTA (PTC) bus drivers. — Cuddles
- Susie...Get over yourself...This isn't 1972. More females now attend college than males. Besides are white men supposed to flog themselves from here to eternity simply because they were born of a particular race and gender? — denphil0503
- To this day there is a palatable resentment from Suburban high school educated males against Urban college educated females. This is a huge factor in the attack on Urban Public Education.
Sadly another insight into this phenomenon is Anne Frank. Of course the argument would be that it isn't 1945...But then that's what they said in 1985.— Cuddles - hipdaddy mr law enforcement man, get some prescription glasses because although your individual comments have truth and validity, especially with respect to your leadership observation ( look at how Bill Cosby was so criticized for making the very same public observations ), the underlying problems and defective thinking processing and behavioral choices are not driven because of skin color.— zen
- Correct. Your skin color does not define who you are and what choices you make. Your upbringing and teachings do. And that comes from your home and your neighborhood.
In the Phillymag article, an interviewee describes a story of how little black kids come undressed at halloween to a better neighborhood for candy. I had the same experience at my home. Little black kids from the nearby projects with no costumes and they were using their pillowcases as bags. Its not their fault at all. Its the parents that dont instill in them self esteem and respect. They dont engage in their childs lives and direct them towards success. The only way these inner city kids see respect is from rappers like Lil Wayne and T.I. that demand respect. They just throw them out the door and into the world with no skills.— hipdaddy - Really, not wearing a costume for Halloween is an indication of self esteem and respect? Economics could explain this. Now if they were rude, barged into the house, called the candy giver names, and did not say thank you, that would indicate a problem of upbringing. — BLKMD
- Again you're not looking at the problem, just covering it with excuses. Thats the whole point of this article. These kids are not brought up with care and rules. They are neglected by their parent. No family structure and a me first attitude. Its a sad sight to watch white parents grab their kids at the Please Touch Museum when a bus load of inner city kids arrive. They all come running in pushing everyone out of the way. No respect or manners. Just me first. Id bust my kids up if they acted like these kids. But they dont know any better because nobody is teaching them. — hipdaddy
- We cannot criticize blacks, lest we be deemed racists!— gxel
- I am not violent (at all) and I don't believe that I am grossly unfair. Yet on any given day in surprising ways there is one thing I want to know about the people in any given situation...I don't care if they are HuTu or Tutu, I don't care if they are French Canadian, North Korean, South Korean or Irish English...In America there's one thing and almost one thing exclusively that I want to know about the people in any given situation....
I am racist.
My name is in the public domain, and it would be on my screen name if not for one particular truth that has been allowed by other newspaper web sites...but of course in Philly no one is racist.
Again my name can be discovered with a google search of a book I wrote: "The Adventures of Muhammad Smith and the Million Man March".
Yes 'evolutionary' that was an outright plug of the fact that "I am racist"...It is also a fact that my satire/comedy has no curse words with the one exception of N*****.
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@gxel....Don't sweat the small stuff.
Tell you what when you say N*****, I'll say H********...See we can talk about this openly.— Cuddles - btw: I haven't called anyone a racist since 1994. For one American to call another American a racist is like accusing someone of having two ears. — Cuddles
- The only part of Philly that is safe and liveable is South Philly because they keep the blacks in check.. They don't allow them to come in and filth up their area like they did to Logan, Olney, West Oak Lane, Germantown, Center City, etc... All the other areas reacted to the influx of blacks with white-flight so now until the end of time, they will be dangerous places to live.. South Philly is the last bastion— Dutch10
- Really the last time I checked, South Philly west of Broad has very high crime rates. Areas filled with poor Whites who are only differentiated from poor Blacks by their skin color. — BLKMD
- To BrownstonePR - your viewpoint is self-defeating. " I am more than happy to discuss how the inner city needs to get its act together " WHEN "white people are willing to discuss the reality of white privilege". So you would CONDITION the self-examination of crime and violence and absentee fathers and drug and alcohol addiction etc etc only if and WHEN white people would examine and admit systemic "white privilege"??? You would avoid helping improve a situation person by person, block by block, neighborhood by neighborhood in this lifetime, UNLESS AND UNTIL 'White privilege' is discussed and publicly accepted as fact. Talk about angry, talk about negative, talk about feeling sorry for yourself, talk about 'cutting off your nose to spite your face.'. Grow up and help yourself and a few youngsters with some positivism and don't just infect everybody you come into contact with your wounds that you carry around.— zen
- The issue (as I attempt to see and make sense of it, from my own limited perspective) here is not race alone. Is it possible to be simultaneously repulsed by the idea of people having children they can not take care of AND the lack of jobs with decent pay that bolstered the communities in question when they were thriving?— mick-of-the-moment
- Hipdaddy, the plural of anecdote is not data. The inner-city black children who are bused by a local church into my very white neighborhood for Halloween are wearing costumes, are well-mannered and accompanied by their grateful parents. And by the way, kids have been using pillow cases to collect their trick or treat loot for decades. See how alternative narratives are possible?— Susie from Philly
- My example should have provided that I live in a mixed neighborhood and the kids that I describe where from the next door projects, where 6-10 years olds with no supervision. The were easy to identify because as I stated, they were thrown out the door by themselves. — hipdaddy
- Mick: If only there was some kind of pill poor women could afford to take that prevented them from getting pregnant. (Oh, wait, extremists have managed to make them hard to get because now they've re-labeled the pill as an "abortifaciant.") If only there was a minor surgical procedure that was affordable and easy to get so women weren't pregnant when they couldn't afford to raise a child. (Oops, I forgot that extremists and their political lackeys keep raising the bar for poor women to have access to abortion.)
If only there weren't massive financial and societal hurdles placed in the way of poor women to attempt to keep from having children they can't afford. Hmm. Maybe we could hand out free birth control and allow women to have cheap, affordable abortions without mobs of "helpful" Christians chanting "Don't kill your baby!"?
Because if what you're really suggesting is that poor people abstain from sex, a strong human drive, well, good luck with that. You see how well celibacy worked out for the Catholic church.— Susie from Philly - People who have multiple children, when they can't afford one, are some of the dumbest people on the planet. It takes a supremely short sighted person to engage in minutes of pleasure and never think of the YEARS of repercussions. But why should people be responsible and plan for their own futures? It's easier to have no personal discipline and total dependence on others for help. — DixonBunz
- So why present so many obstacles to birth control and abortion? I guess poor people could go to Planned Parenthood -- oops, I forgot, the state cut their funding. Gee, I wonder who made it quite so difficult for poor people to get help preventing pregnancy. I wonder who tries to pass legislation declaring pharmaceutical forms of birth control are really abortions.
But then, philly.com commenters like Dixon get to criticize them, so at least it's useful.
And by the way, I've known some very educated and successful people who still manage to knock up their girlfriends. Maybe it's not just the poors that are stupid, huh?— Susie from Philly - I think the Philly Mag article was really poorly written, and its contents were a far cry from what the title led me to believe it was about.
The author of this philly.com article makes just as many foolish statements though, especially that whites are afraid to discuss the history. I think the general sentiment is, "we've discussed the history, we can't change what happened any more than the Germans can with the Holocaust, any more than the British can change what they did to indentured servant relatives in the 1700s, anymore than the Romans can change....etc., etc." More globally, I think whites believe there is currently an infrastructure in place to succeed, it's just a matter of taking the first step.
At the end of the day, there are common threads through all successful people, regardless of skin tone, nationality, or religion: keep your nose clean and outwork everybody else. Simple as that, it's a truth as old as time, and THAT should be the dialogue, not another history rehashing.— evolutionary - Hipdaddy, are you originally from the suburbs? Because this just isn't unusual in the city. We were sent out the door with our siblings to trick or treat up and down the block while our parents gave out candy. I know this must be shocking to upwardly-mobile helicopter parents, but it's not considered negligence out in the neighborhoods.— Susie from Philly
- Sarcasm leads not to conversation but to an argument. Lets have an open dialogue without the fist pounding. — hipdaddy
- The problem with the Philly Mag article is that it is putting issues in a racial context that doesn't exist. The fact is the black or white people living in Philadelphia or the area do not share a single point of view, ethics or values. In both the white and black population, you'll find a wide range of opinions, beliefs, lifestyles and attitudes. We can have a conversation about those topics. We can discuss the problems that many people assign to "blacks" such as out of fathers not supporting their kids, crime, drug use, gun violence, racism, bigotry, fairness, civility and on and on. But you'd have to acknowledge the reality that these things exist in virtually every racial, economic, religious and ethnic group. When you make broad accusations, you let the individuals who engage in behaviour you may disagree with off the hook. It's not John Doe or Mary Smith who is the problem. It's all black people or all white people who are the problem. When you say "black" people when addressing issues, how do you expect a black person who agrees with you in principle to take what you say? They know you're not a person who is speaking about reality or truth and what you have to say is very suspect. How about sticking to facts when discussing civil society and values instead of introducing race? How about recognizing that the majority of whites and blacks share many common values and that no group of people should be characterized based on the behaviour of a few?— MikeP
- Maybe Goggle goggles will make an app so that we are all blue like Avatars!— redheart85
- When I was 15 I worked at a movie theater, often as a concession stand attendant. One time, on a Saturday night (the busiest movie night) a black dude (and his family) took, approximately, 15m to get their order right while I had to fill and refill the various sodas they wanted and then didn't want. Eventually, they completed their order and it was time to pay, they did. When I went to hand back the change and move on with my life, the father decided to have a 10m long conversation (holding up the line still) with another person in his group so, after waiting 5m holding his change out to him, I set it on the counter next to his arm.
He told my boss I was racist.— KYS24 - Not only does this Russian fail to suggest where Philadelphians of any race are supposed to smoke pot (only half-kidding here, and surely Huber is aware that young whites are ten percent more likely to smoke pot than their black counterparts?)
Where did this statistic come from? You are saying it is more likely a white kid smokes pot than a black kid? Walk around any part of Philly and tell me that is what you see.— bling - Why is it that my reaction to this article is "it could have been written - it reads as though it were written - fifty years ago"?
Martin Luther King and James Baldwin were speaking, writing and acting eloquently, persuasively and bravely enough to convince a lot of us White Boys to work for the cause - Civil Rights. Some of us did.
But not much has changed - we're still not getting the right answers because we're still not asking the right questions.— He Visto Todo - I missed the original PBS broadcast of "America". Finally though I borrowed my brother's VHS and went to the local Orange NJ library and borrowed their comnplete set of "America" VHS tapes on a daily basis over the course of a week. I so enjoyed the cronological insights of this PBS series and the commentator, Alistair Cooke, wasn't so bad either.
So in this chronological order they come to the 1960's and they show a (very) dark skinned little girl in a brilliant white dress jumping rope. This is when the commentator, Alistair Cooke of England says...
"They will never admit it"
'but they moved in droves to get away from that Black little girl'.
Even as I type this it is a clear snapshot memory when I first heard those words.
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Surprisingly it holds up well even on a google search but no one NO ONE (respected outside of their own neighborhood) in America has EVER admited to being racist....
Not George Washington or Benjamin Banaker
Not Abe Lincoln or Frederick Douglas
Not George Wallce or Malcolm X
Not Pat Bucannon or Jesse Jackson
No one in America has ever admitted to being racist ie: "I am racist".
Imagine that.— Cuddles - Um...yeah, actually people have admitted that.
Repeatedly.
Throughout history.
I know you're a routine troll to race articles, but what planet are you from to think otherwise?— evolutionary - @(anonymous)-evolutionary
I so enjoy the company...as anyone who can read knows that I am a Philadelphian.
With that being said, did you take me up on my offer and google it?...Did you google George Washington yet in our discussion on American racism?...And even if we only speak of Philadelphian racism, I ask do you admit to being a racist?
Like I said anyone who can read knows that I am a Philadelphian.— Cuddles - No, I didn't, as I have no desire to banter with the myopic self-indulgent.
You come here trolling to pump up sales of your book, which you "happen" to name drop every single time you visit an article. That you'd use your moral soapbox to do so reveals what a charlatan and a fraud you are - either that, or your ego is the size of Texas.
Don't bother responding. "You will never admit it." - evolutionary— evolutionary - This whole concept is to commercailize Philly Mag, almost admittedly so as this person was hired from Forbes for their "success".
With that being said, I enjoy the company...Everyone (EVERYONE) knows that I am a Philadelphian...do you admit to being a racist? (Be the first on your block.)— Cuddles - Address my response first if you want a dialogue; the comment about Philly Mag was a complete non sequitur. I stated that you come on here to namedrop and pump up sales of your book on the premise of caring about race articles enough to comment on them. Your constant hawking undermines and de-legitimizes everything that comes after said hawking - you do get that, don't you?
Also, recognize that the use of a false dichotomy is one of the oldest fallacies in arguing a point (i.e., either someone admits to fitting your definition of a racist, whatever that may be; or they deny being your definition of a racist and you essentially declare them to be liars). The classic ruse and double logic of the charlatan.
This is my last response until you actually address what I said.— evolutionary - "They will never admit it"
'but they moved in droves to get away from that Black little girl'.
Even as I type this it is a clear snapshot memory when I first heard those words.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Surprisingly it holds up well even on a google search but no one NO ONE (respected outside of their own neighborhood) in America has EVER admited to being racist....
Not George Washington or Benjamin Banaker
Not Abe Lincoln or Frederick Douglas
Not George Wallce or Malcolm X
Not Pat Bucannon or Jesse Jackson
No one in America has ever admitted to being racist ie: "I am racist".
Imagine that.— Cuddles - Who says whites don't talk about race? Anytime they scream about cutting taxes or closing city schools or Obamacare... ending job training, after school programs, head start programs... they are talking loud and clear. The “I don't want to make blah people's lives better..." argument. YOU CAN'T SPEND THE LAST 30 YEARS cutting programs that work then say "see those programs never worked". If we (all Americans) don't take the time to educate poor Black, White, Latino people then we will continue to have this conversation year after year.— 1chez
- Daniel Denvir ,
So it took 7 paragraphs to arrive at "Namely, he "yearn[s] for....the freedom to speak to my African-American neighbors about...how the inner city needs to get its act together." Like, you know, an arguably racist conversation about race."
Which proves his point. Talk about race , calmly, in any terms other than the viewpoint of the other person, gets you labeled racist.
Which is what you did.
Proving his point.
ROTFLMAO.
— euell - All (ALL) Europeans are Nationalist
All (ALL) Africans are Tribulist
And while I have no idea why North Koreans kill South Koreans
In America everyone (EVERYONE) is racist
....Any French Canadian will tell you this.— Cuddles - if you have a point of view it's lost.
FYI:
trib·al·ism (trb-lzm)
n.
1. The organization, culture, or beliefs of a tribe.
2. A strong feeling of identity with and loyalty to one's tribe or group.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tribal·ist n.
tribal·istic adj.— euell - "They will never admit it"...Alistair Cooke, 1972. — Cuddles
- still an incomprehensible pot.
"Alistar Cooke was an idiot" euell 2013.
— euell - From the final compromise of 1787
To our most bloodiest war
To White Flight
To Anne Frank....
...This is the most powerful gravity in all of Ameican political history. It currently holds within it's grasp whether our nation returns to the progress of Franklin Roosevelt that 'we' abandoned on July 2, 1964 or falls aimlessly into the myth of John Wayne, filmed on location in Mexico.— Cuddles - There will be over 300 murders and 5000 other violent crimes in Philadelphia this year and almost EVERYONE committed by a black man! What else do you have to know about this segment of society where 70% of fathers abandon their children.— farley
- There is nothing new about Urban crime and contemporary Blacks do not have an historical "70%" monopoly on leaving their children. — Cuddles
- @Susie--I fully support birth control for anyone who wants it. Heck if we can give free Viagra to old men (thanks to Bush/Medicare drug benefit) we can give free birth control to women. Why do you mention only women? Are men locked out of the drug store and prevented from buying condoms? The Catholic Church while hysterical and medieval about birth control is not really the issue here. The right or so called conservatives will never be of any help here. They offer tax cuts for the rich and platitudes about liberty. Sensible people have to at least acknowledge and discuss the idea that the current model of child rearing that is too often taking place in the many urban areas by ALL ethnic groups-- single mothers, absent fathers-- is not working. The employment model in most cities is not working either: not enough jobs with DECENT pay that do not require years of specialized training or degrees. They can both be problems. These problems do have some connections but they are not directly connected. I do not have to father a child and walk away simply because my job prospects are poor. I know that I come to this discussion with a limited perspective; I am not poor and do not live in the city. My parents were poor and did live in the city. They find the right wing rhetoric to be deplorable but are also dismayed by the cavalier attitude and circumstances with which people decide to enter parenthood--too young, not educated, unemployed and unmarried. To think that these conditions are not going to cause problems is as naive as the aspirin between your knees for birth control crowd.— mick-of-the-moment
- Very very well said Mick— ghall1961
- 1-Philadelphia Magazine is and has been irrelevant for at least the past decade!
2-The whole debate centering on black/white relations is not the issue, it is a smoke screen for the growing disparity between the rich and poor. Racism is just a vehicle used to divert the real issue.
3- With all the political power positions in the city being held by black people, the argument of inequality is rather moot.— slugo - 'One' is true of all magazines, for the last five yeas, at least.
'Three' ignores the concept of insurrection and what happens in coups and happened to 1939 German Jews.
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Now as for Number 2: People have been saying that for years, in fact it could be called "Racial Conversation 101".
On March 14, 2008 Bear Sterns got the first of several major Big Bank Bailouts of our time and a pivotal moment for the strength of the American Middle Class.
On all (ALL) 500 channels of our TV do you know what all (ALL) America was watching, not only for that night of March 14, 2008 but for the whole weekend as George W. Bush snuck in the shadows with crony Big Northeast Banks that had dealt directly with his crony big Northeast family for several generations. As this historical Bailout was happening in plain view do you remember what ALL of America was talking about AND watching?
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Number 2....people have been doing that for years.
— Cuddles - Man this topic is too hard to write about.
Back in the day minorities weren't hired because of prejudice. that caused minorities to resort to crime to provide. that caused more jobs to leave. thus cities with no jobs.
whites say cold-hearted stuff. that causes minorities to become more insular. and the divide widens.
obviously the worst choice is to destroy the education system. america needs to create programs that put factories back in cities and connect those factories to the surrounding High School.(like Germany does)
I would venture to say African Americans and Hispanics from the inner city never have felt like they were accepted or wanted by American society. A showing by the people of America that we see them as american citizens might go far.
Obviously everyone will say-we have already spent too much money on the inner city.
This is true, but we have always done it kind of back handedly and begrudgingly.
my experience of working in North Philly for 5 years- Poverty is not just a lack of money. In some cases the amount of lack is unbelievable. I hate to say it but these are people who need help because there is a lack of everything.— high water - .....Hard to write about.
You though definitely are in the ball park.
Guess which ethnic group has the lowest suicide rate even though it went up after integration?— Cuddles - All brown countries and all brown parts of countries are poor, that ain't a "coincidence" and it's not White people's fault. Besides, if you're not free to discriminate, then you aren't free. Integration would not have to be forced if White people wanted it, correct? Are Asians free to hire Asians and live around Asians in Asian countries? Why aren't White people allowed this freedom in White countries? Massive 3rd world immigration and FORCED "assimilation" for ALL and ONLY White countries is White GENOCIDE. Anti-racist is a code word for anti-White. — Guderian
- I used to almost be embarassed when 'people' said that George Washington Carver 'invented the peanut'. From the very first when I heard this badge of honor, largely and exclusively by Blacks who themselves were embarassed that Blacks appeared to be historically dumb (they will never admit it), I knew it was a joke...In no way could Carver's peanut compare to Einstein's 'Relativity'. At the most earliest of ages I knew to keep such thoughts to myself.
Then on literally the last day that my parents could make me go to church the preacher at Mt. Calvery Baptist Church near 10th and York was a guest preacher (actually the grandson of the regular preacher...Ezekial) who gave a sermon, who's theme was that the first transgression of man against god was not violence, or rape or calling someone a N*****...the initial transgression of man against god was "Knowledge".
Often I think of Orson Welles' line: "The Italians have had 100's years of strife and made GREAT strides in art, science and math...The Swiss right above them have had centuries of peace, harmony and love and only created the Coo-Coo-Clock".
And while the Europeans forgot to put Benjamin Banaker, Elijah McCoy and Vivian Thomas in the history books, I wonder if this 4,000,000,000 year old earth can survive another 200 years of the European Industrial Revolution? I don't know but on this I can relatively be sure: An African would have never (EVER) invented the light bulb....They were GETTING ALONG JUST FINE WITH THE SUN until someone came up and called them dumb for not inventing the candle.
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Genesis 2:17
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Love emeges and it disappears
The Northern and the Southrn Hemispheres
I do it for your love
Found a rug in an old junk shop
And brought it home to you
Along the way the colors ran, the orange bled the blue...
— Cuddles - let's see, there is an African in the white house, just about every large city in the USA is now run by African Americans and apparently that's still not enough.Liberal White America has pretty much tossed them the keys and said "have fun". Look around you and see the results of that. We are now well on our way to 3rd world status,well done Lib's.— hawk
- and your solution is to blame liberals. don't think that is going to get it done. now go away and let the grown ups talk. — high water
- Africa for the Africans, Asia for the Asians, White countries for EVERYBODY?
Integration would not have to be FORCED if White people wanted it, correct?
The attempt to destroy, in whole or in part, EVERY White country thru 3rd World immigration and ‘assimilation’ is GENOCIDE.
It's hard to see White genocide when you're an anti-white.
Anti-racist is a code word for anti-white.
— Guderian - @Guderian I have read some ridiculous comments on this site but yours really is sad. You clearly have no idea what the word genocide means nor have you ever heard of colonialism. Please read something besides Mein Kampf or The Turner Diaries and get back to us in the real world.— 1chez
- Anonymous criticism of others' work always bothers me. It certainly doesn't facilitate open discussion. But, if anyone doesn't believe whites are afraid to publicly challenge blacks and their "culture," they are living in a time warp.— Konstanty
- expecting people to "use context" and "apply history" are just ways of making excuses. The author of that article is spot on. You have to basically walk on eggshells to talk about race otherwise you are automatically labeled racist. Issues with blacks in inner cities will never be properly addressed until this stubborn attitude is itself addressed. Yes, history in the US has not been too kind too blacks. The problems is that you cannot hold onto that forever. Its good to try and help people get educated and get jobs, but if you try too hard you are left with people who are too dependent on others to do things for them. That can happen to people of any race and economic background. Until you address the real problem, the parents, the situation in inner cities will be hopeless.— theeman1
- Dismissing history and asking others to put their comments in the proper context isn't making excuses. Would you ask an Irishman to forget about history and "get over" hundreds of years of oppression by the English. Just blaming parents is lazy and simplistic, Jim crow ended in 1954, civil rights act '64, Obama '08. You are asking 40 million people to pull themselves out of poverty in a 50 year period at the same time conservatives are fighting to close schools, end job training, cut college scholarships and gain lucrative profits from private prisons. BTW the situation is never hopeless, we will prevail against our enemies, to quote Marley "In this bright future you can't forget your past." — 1chez
- Thanks for the excellent article with so much important economic, political and historical context - all missing from the Philly mag piece. While Robert Huber's article may have been well-intended, it completely missed the mark, and the sensationalist, misleading headline made things worse. I was offended by his presumption of speaking for all white people in Philly. What was that about? As a white person who has lived in predominantly African American neighborhoods in this city for more than thirty years, I am sensitive to the subject of race but don't avoid it. I can't imagine how any white person who has authentic and honest professional, personal, or community relationships with African Americans could do so. Their interactions would inevitably be shallow, stilted, and unnatural. The only thing positive about that article is the buzz and dialogue it has generated.— annieem
- Ya'know I just saw a comment on another Philly dot com story, that I choose to answer here....Here, our American motive is more clear.
From time to time to this day I feel bad when I see the destructive force of Blacks in the inner-city: Like a willfull ignorance. I believe I would be justified to say that had the Irish arrived in the same numbers to the inner-city after World War Two (as opposed to after Ellis Island), they too would be just as destructive as was the case with the recent British riots that made global news last year.
There is a bigger point though.
Yes "Black Culture" is tearing up every brick they can get their hands on....
What culture is tearing up the seas, the oceans, the trees, the forrests and the Dodo bird?
Which will be of greater consequence in 10 years...100 years?
Yes Black culture is probably responsible for the broken window (Though not next door to me...that's another story). Who, what culture, is responsible for Air Pollution, Water Pollution and Space Pollution and a throw-away mentality that abandoned Blacks to the inner-city?
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I can't say it enough, though some old man said it first about 2,013 years ago: Genesis 2:17
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@-evolutionary, I took all (ALL) the curse words out except for your favorite N-Word.
http://www.amazon.com/Adventures-Muhammad-Smith-Million-March/dp/1420867040— Cuddles - Thank you - excellent counter to the Phila magazine article, which was offensive on every level.— oneday
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